Full transcript of “Face the Nation,” July 28, 2024
On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Robert Costa:
- Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York
- Sen. Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina
- House Foreign Affairs Commitee chair Rep. Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas
- Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland
- Democratic New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham
Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”
ROBERT COSTA: I’m Robert Costa in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: Israel fires back at Hezbollah after a deadly rocket strike.
Plus, with 100 days until the presidential election, and with a new candidate, what’s next in the race?
Overnight, the Israeli military launched strikes on a series of Hezbollah targets, retribution for a rocket strike in Israeli territory that killed at least 12 people, including children in the country’s northern border. The Iran-backed terror group has denied it was behind the attack.
(Begin VT)
ANTONY BLINKEN (U.S. Secretary of State): Every indication is that, indeed, the rockets were from – or the rocket was from Hezbollah.
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: We will get the latest from House Foreign Affairs Chairman Michael McCaul, and Senator Chris Van Hollen, who has been outspoken against Israel’s actions in Gaza.
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer will also weigh in, in a rare Sunday interview.
Plus:
(Begin VT)
KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States (D) and U.S. Presidential Candidate): We are not going back.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: New candidate, new energy for the Democratic Party, as Vice President Kamala Harris moves to formally clinch the nomination this week after President Biden’s departure from the race.
(Begin VT)
WOMAN: I’m super excited, and I think her age is – is great.
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: But as former President Trump tests attack lines against a new foe…
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate): Then they took him out of the fight, and they put a new fighter. We have a new victim now, Kamala.
(BOOING)
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We have a new victim.
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: … are Democrats prepared to withstand the onslaught and compete in November?
(Begin VT)
WOMAN: I would love to see a woman in power at some point. I’m just not sure if right now is the time and with this candidate.
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: We will hear from New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, who is on the Harris campaign advisory board.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. We will get to politics and the presidential race in a moment, but we want to begin this morning with the Middle East and fears that hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah could spark a broader regional conflict.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has just returned to Tel Aviv from his trip to the U.S.
And Debora Patta has the latest.
(Begin VT)
(SINGING)
DEBORA PATTA (voice-over): It was mostly children and teens killed in the Hezbollah rocket attack. This morning, families and friends gathered to bury their dead.
Rebia (sp?) knew every single victim.
How much will you miss them?
REBIA (Mourning Victims): I wish we could – you know, I wish we could go back on time and this wouldn’t happen.
DEBORA PATTA: The strike in this remote Druze village in the Israeli- occupied Golan Heights is the deadliest since October 7.
The kids were playing soccer just behind me when the sirens rang out. Moments later, the rocket hit, leaving no time for them to run to this shelter. Children were playing soccer here when the sirens rang out. Seconds later, the rocket slammed into the pitch, leaving no time to run to safety.
Israel and the Iranian-backed Hezbollah have been trading almost daily fire along the Lebanese border for more than nine months now, but this could escalate tensions. A U.S. official told CBS News there’s no doubt it was a Hezbollah rocket, despite denials from the armed group.
While the U.S. does not believe it intended to hit the soccer field, this is exactly the kind of nightmare scenario it’s been warning about that could push the region into all-out war.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu cut short his U.S. trip to fly home, and, overnight, his warplanes retaliated by hitting Hezbollah targets deep inside Lebanon. The Israel Defense Force is already overstretched in Gaza.
Over the weekend, the Israeli military issued new evacuation orders in an area in Khan Yunis designated a humanitarian safe zone, once again upending the lives of displaced Palestinians. But there was no warning before the IDF hit this school sheltering civilians in Central Gaza yesterday.
In the dust and rubble, people scrambled for safety. This woman calls frantically for her loved ones lost in the panic.
(BOY SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DEBORA PATTA: “We were just sitting, playing happily,” wept this traumatized young boy.
The IDF says it was a Hamas command center. But they were mostly women and children among the more than 30 killed.
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: Debora Patta reporting in Israel.
We turn now to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
Senator, good morning.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER (D-New York): Good morning. Good to be here.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, what’s your response to the latest strikes in the Golan Heights?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, look, first, we know that Iran, through its surrogates, Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, is really the real evil in this area.
And Israel has every right to defend itself against Hezbollah, like they do against Hamas. It’s sort of – it shows you how bad Iran and its surrogates are. These were Arab kids they shot out. They don’t care – they sent missiles at. And they don’t even care who that is.
But having said that, I don’t think anyone wants a wider war. So I hope there are moves to de-escalate.
ROBERT COSTA: Sticking with the Middle East, Senator, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just in Washington. You were part of the formal bipartisan invitation to have him come to Washington.
Yet there was video of you not shaking his hand when he was on the floor on Capitol Hill. Why not? Why did you not shake his hand?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, look, you know, I went to this speech, because the relationship between Israel and America is ironclad, and I wanted to show that.
But, at the same time, as everyone knows, I have serious disagreements with the way Benjamin Netanyahu has conducted these policies.
ROBERT COSTA: Your colleague and friend former Speaker Nancy Pelosi tweeted this, this week.
She said: “Benjamin Netanyahu’s presentation in the House chamber was by far the worst presentation of any foreign dignitary invited and honored with that privilege in American history.”
Do you agree with her assessment? And do you have any regrets at all…
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Look…
ROBERT COSTA: … about the invitation?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Look, no, as I have said, I want you to show our ironclad commitment to Israel that transcends any one prime minister or any one president, no matter how much you might disagree with that prime minister.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, on July 13, you went to Delaware to meet with President Biden. It was a private discussion. And I know you like to keep your discussions with the president private.
But that, for history, was a very momentous meeting, in the sense of you were the Senate Democratic leader, the majority leader, meeting with the president to discuss the presidential race.
For history, for the record, did you, in any way, suggest to the president that he should leave the presidential race on July 13?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, first, let’s look at President Biden’s record.
He’s had one of the most amazing presidencies we’ve had in decades, passing so many good things, the infrastructure bill, the IRA bill, getting the price of prescription drugs down, for the first time, going against the NRA successfully, helping our veterans with burn pits. So he’s had an amazingly successful record.
And he’s always done what’s right for America. And I respect him. I respect his patriotism. I respect the amazing things he’s done. We worked together on many of them.
ROBERT COSTA: But just for history, though, did you – what was your role, what was your intention with that meeting with him on July 13?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Yes, I’m not going to get into the specifics. But he can – the – President Biden will walk away from the presidency with his head held high, because of all the great things he’s done and because he put America first. He always has.
ROBERT COSTA: Vice President Harris now the presumptive nominee.
Senator, are you encouraging Senate Democrats, including those in battleground states, to invite her to campaign with them, to have her in their advertisements?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Yes, the Biden/Harris record is just incredible, as I mentioned, all the specific things that has been – that they have passed together working with us.
So, it’s an incredible record. And our senators are already talking about it. They’re, you know, cutting ribbons at new bridges. They’re bringing rural broadband. They’re bringing broadband to rural areas. They’re opening up new factories from chip fabs. So it’s a great, great record, and it’s helping our Senate candidates run on it.
And let me just say one thing. Just compare that to the Republican record, to the Trump/Vance ticket. It’s extreme. This Project 2025 shows it would take the rights away from women. It would take away rights of working people and help only the very wealthy. It would even be a threat to our democracy.
And one more point about this, and that is, the addition of J.D. Vance to this ticket, it’s – it’s incredibly a bad choice. I think Donald Trump – I know him, and he’s probably sitting and watching the TV, and every day, Vance – it comes out Vance has done something more extreme, more weird, more erratic.
Vance seems to be more erratic and more extreme than President Trump. And I will bet President Trump is sitting there scratching his head and wondering, why did I pick this guy? The choice may be one of the best things he ever did for Democrats.
ROBERT COSTA: What do you mean…
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Now, the president has about 10 days, 10 days, before the Ohio ballot is locked in. And he has a choice. Does he keep Vance on the ticket, where he’s – he probably – he’s – he already has a whole lot of baggage? He’s probably going to be more baggage over the weeks because we’ll hear more things about him, or does he pick someone new?
It’s his choice.
ROBERT COSTA: Has Vice President Harris reached out to you about her vice presidential selection? And do you have a leading contender or two that you believe would be helpful?
And Senator Kelly, your colleague, is one of the contenders, we’ve reported. Are you confident that, if he goes on the ticket, you can hold on to that seat in a few years in a special?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, let me say this.
I have complete confidence that Vice President Harris will choose a top- notch ticket and top-notch vice presidential candidate. We have a lot of – we have a very strong bench. There are a lot of good choices. I have confidence in her choice.
ROBERT COSTA: Are you worried about the Senate majority? It’s a narrow majority for you right now. What’s your candid assessment about the Senate majority and Democratic chances?
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: My candid assessment is, we’re going to not only win the Senate, but we have a good chance to pick up a seat or two. Our candidates, our senators are running on their records of accomplishment.
And that’s why they’re running ahead of even the national ticket, because, when they show all the good stuff we’re bringing to their states through the infrastructure bill, through the Chips and Science bill, with so many good new manufacturing jobs, through bringing broadband to rural areas for the first time, where rural areas desperately need it – you know, Franklin Roosevelt said in the ‘1930s electricity was a necessity and brought it to them.
We’re doing the same thing with broadband, which, in the 21st century, is a necessity.
ROBERT COSTA: Speaking about technology, what about…
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: And so we have a great record to run on. And it’s going to – yes, it’s going to – it’s going to keep us – it’s going to keep us in the majority.
ROBERT COSTA: Finally here, Senator, President Biden this week is going to make a push on the Supreme Court to reform the Supreme Court. What’s really possible there? What’s realistic? Give us your real view about whether this can happen this year on a – in a bipartisan way.
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Yes.
Well, first, let’s start off the Supreme Court is a morass. First, it’s an ethical morass. The idea that wealthy individuals, many of them right-wing, can both have – pay for cases before the court and at the same time give justices gifts or trips is outrageous.
And, frankly, Chief Justice Roberts isn’t doing enough to curb it. But it’s a morass and even a worse way. This is a MAGA, right-wing court. It’s already taken the right – away the right to choose. It could very well go further on that. I fear it will. It’s siding with the wealthiest of individuals and the powerful interests over the average working family.
And it even threatens democracy when it says that a president can get immunity even for certain acts in the presidency. So, this court is – is just a morass, both ethically and substantively.
ROBERT COSTA: Thank you, Senator Schumer. We appreciate your time.
SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: You bet.
ROBERT COSTA: And Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: We now go to Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.
Good morning, Senator Graham. Let’s start with foreign policy.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-South Carolina): Good morning.
ROBERT COSTA: It’s a serious time over in Israel. Are you confident, Senator, that U.S. and Lebanese efforts to cool tensions between Israel and Hezbollah will be successful?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: No, because I think Iran is behind all of this.
And until we put Iran on notice that we’re going to hold you accountable for attacks by Hezbollah and Hamas against Israel, you’re going to get more of the same. The attack of October the 7th was designed to stop normalization, in my view, between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
So, until the Iranians believe they’re going to get hit, that we start putting their oil refineries on a target list, you’re going to get more of this. When it comes to Iran, Biden/Harris have been a colossal failure in terms of controlling the ayatollah. They’ve enriched him, and Israel’s paying the price.
ROBERT COSTA: What do you believe will happen now? Could this conflict spiral? And could it open up a second front?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
Yes, what I worry the most about is a sprint to a nuclear weapon. The director of national intelligence gave the Senate a report last week about the status of the Iranian nuclear program and their malign activities, helping their proxies, like Hezbollah and Hamas throughout the Mideast. It was stunning.
I am very worried that not only you could open up a second front, but they could use these three or four months before our election to sprint to a nuclear weapon. And we have to put them on notice that cannot happen.
ROBERT COSTA: Let’s turn to the presidential race, Senator Graham.
You just heard from Senator Schumer. He called your colleague in the Senate who’s on…
(LAUGHTER)
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
ROBERT COSTA: … who’s on the ticket, Senator J.D. Vance, he called him weird, called him extreme.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERT COSTA: And he said he wonders if your close friend former President Trump’s sitting there this morning wondering, why did I pick this guy?
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERT COSTA: But it’s not just Democrats, Senator.
Let me show you something from the Wall Street Journal editorial page.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
ROBERT COSTA: We know you read that.
They said: “Senator Vance’s recent comments smack of smart aleck cracks that get laughs in certain right-wing male precincts. But it doesn’t play well with millions of female voters, many of them Republicans.”
We’re talking about Senator Vance talking about childless Americans in political leadership in recent days, among other controversial comments. You’re close to former President Trump. Does he in any way regret having Vance on the ticket?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: No, not at all, because J.D. Vance has one of the most compelling stories in American politics.
When you look at his background, what he – overcome early in life to be who he is, he went to Iraq. He didn’t have to. Went to Yale Law School. He became a Marine. That’s no small deal.
The American first agenda will be in good hands with J.D. No matter who the Democrats pick, Vice President Harris picks to be her running mate, they will buy into her agenda. And her agenda is the Green New Deal and Medicare for all. She is the most liberal senator in the United States Senate.
And there’s been enough drugs on her watch as border czar, fentanyl, to come in through the border to kill everybody in the world. So, the America described by Senator Schumer, where Biden did a great job, is not connecting with the American people.
We’re on the wrong track. The American people know it, and J.D. Vance will help President Trump get us on the right track. And if you expect Kamala Harris, the border czar that’s been a miserable failure on that issue, to get us back on the right track, it would be a colossal mistake.
So, we’re in good shape on the Republican side. Policy matters in this election. If this is a policy election, we win.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, I understand your focus on Vice President Harris, the presumptive Democratic nominee, but there are many Americans who do not have children.
You’re also not just a senator. You’re a political strategist. You work informally with former President Trump and so many Republicans.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.
ROBERT COSTA: You have a political mind. Is it a mistake for Senator Vance to keep talking about Americans who don’t have children…
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
ROBERT COSTA: … when it comes to a national campaign?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, I don’t – right. Right.
Yes, I don’t have children, but I’m going to vote for J.D. and Trump, because I think we’ll be safer and more prosperous and more secure. I want to end the Biden/Harris debacle.
No, you should never say anything to hurt anybody’s feelings. But when you look at all these interviews by J.D., he was talking about how the Democratic Party has abandoned the traditional family. This election is going to be decided by the American people on who can correct the problems in their lives.
And here’s what most Americans are experiencing, having to choose between buying food and gas, a border that is beyond broken. The largest cause of death of young people in America is fentanyl poisoning coming through the broken border, and a world on fire.
So this idea of trying to marginalize J.D. and make him some kind of bad person is not going to work, because he’s not a bad person. He’s a good person.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator…
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: He has served his country honorably, and it’s going to help President Trump win.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, no one’s questioning his character here. We’re just wondering, is it smart politics?
(LAUGHTER)
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: They’re not? They’re not?
ROBERT COSTA: Well, not here at Face the Nation.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: No…
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
ROBERT COSTA: Is it smart politics for him to – is he on…
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERT COSTA: Does he have the right message to win this election or not, or would you advise him to adjust his message?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: His message is: I’m going to help President Trump change America. We’re going to secure our border. We’re going to drill for oil and gas that we own and we’re going to set the world right pretty quickly. We’re going to address inflation in a real way.
That’s the message of the Trump/Vance campaign, is to fundamentally change the problems that you’re living with. If you expect Vice President Harris to change the course we’re on as a nation, you’re going to be sadly disappointed. She is the most liberal senator in the United States. There is no liberal horse that she has chosen not to ride.
She sponsored the Green New Deal and Medicare for all. At the end of the day, recasting her is something – she’s not – she’s a nice person, but she’s incredibly liberal, I mean, major league liberal. At a time when we need to reset America, she’s going to double down on wrong policy choices.
And J.D. Vance and Donald Trump are going to change the course of this country and the world.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, President Biden is going to be in Austin, Texas, tomorrow at the LBJ Library, expected to talk about reforming the Supreme Court, pushing forward a code of ethics for the Supreme Court.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
ROBERT COSTA: You just heard the majority leader endorse that idea.
Where do you stand? Could you work with President Biden, yes or no, on a Supreme Court reform package this year?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: No, because he wants to destroy the court. They want to pack the court. They want her to undercut the conservative court.
They’ve tried to marginalize the court and destroy the Roberts court. The Roberts court has brought constitutional balance back to the court, and the liberals in this country want to pack the court. They want to destroy the court.
So their initiatives coming from Biden will be dead on arrival in the Senate. They have no desire to make the court better. They’re just trying to make it more liberal.
ROBERT COSTA: What about term limits for Supreme Court justices? Put aside the issue of packing or adding justices.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: No, no, no, no, no, no.
It’s – when – they didn’t complain about any of this when the court was pumping out opinions they liked. Only when we brought constitutional balance back from having a conservative court was the court a threat to the country. What’s been a threat to the country is an out-of-control liberal court issuing opinions that basically take over every phase of American life based on nine people’s judgment.
So this Roberts court has brought constitutional balance back to the country. And one of the issues on the ballot in 2024 is, what kind of court do you want? If you left it up to Elizabeth Warren to pick the court, you’d had the most liberal court in the history of the world, and Kamala Harris will be right there with her.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, I want you to listen to this recent comment from former President Trump at a rally.
(Begin VT)
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Christians, get out and vote just this time.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what? It’ll be fixed. It’ll be fine. You won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians. I love you, Christians.
I’m a Christian. I love you. Get out. You got to get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not going to have to vote.
(End VT)
ROBERT COSTA: Senator, in just a minute here, quickly, Democrats say the former president is trying to take the reins of the entire democratic system here with these comments.
You are laughing. What do you believe he’s trying to say? What’s the truth?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: He’s trying to tell the Christian community and anybody else who’s listening, the nightmare that we’re experiencing will soon be over, give me four more years, and I’m going to right this ship called America, and pass it on to the next generation.
We will have democracy, God willing, for a very long time in this country. But what President Trump is trying to tell people: I did it once, I can do it again. These problems can be solved.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator – Senator Graham…
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: But you got to go in a different direction.
Thank you.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator Graham, we always appreciate your time. Many thanks.
And we’ll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: So, I hope you stay up to date with the latest campaign news with our political show America Decides.
You can watch that on our streaming network at 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday, CBS News 24/7.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We’re now joined by the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul.
Chairman, thanks for being here.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Thanks, Robert. Thanks for having me.
ROBERT COSTA: A pretty grim morning over in Israel in the fallout from the Golan Heights strikes.
Secretary Blinken told reporters this morning, quote, “Every indication is that indeed the rockets were from or in some way related to Hezbollah.” A U.S. official also tells CBS News, “There’s no real doubt this was Hezbollah.”
Have you been briefed on the situation in the Golan Heights, and what can you tell us?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Yes, I can. And it did come from Hezbollah within the five-mile range that the U.N. Security Council resolution says that Hezbollah cannot operate within this five-mile zone, killing 12 children on a playground. And, you know, what’s interesting, they were Arab Druze, a religious minority sect. It doesn’t make any sense to me why they would target those people. And now they’re claiming they had nothing to do with it. Perhaps that may be why.
ROBERT COSTA: So, for someone who’s just kind of tuning into this issue, they hear about Israel’s war with Hamas, and they now hear about Hezbollah attacking in the Golan Heights. And you just heard Senator Lindsey Graham on FACE THE NATION. He warned of possible nuclear concerns here if this spills and spirals into a broader conflict.
What’s the big picture here of the threat of this situation exacerbating in the coming days and weeks?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, we don’t want escalation for sure. And I think it’s important to note that – that Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthi rebels were all proxies of Iran. They’re sort of like the tentacles of the head of the snake, if you will. And so they don’t operate without, you know, without Iran’s consent. And so what I think is happening, to be honest with you, as they debate the cease-fire, Iran doesn’t want normalization. And that is the process with Saudi Arabia and Israel, that they were entering into prior to October the 7th. So, this is a very important point. Once Iran saw this is – I think that culminated in October the 7th.
So, it’s not in their interest to have any cease-fire, you know, agreement that would somehow keep – they want Sinwar to stay in power. They want Hamas to stay in power, otherwise they lose power. And the Saudis made it clear, to get to the normalization peace process, Sinwar has to go, Hamas has to go, and we need a new form of governance for the Palestinian people.
ROBERT COSTA: The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, in the United States this past week. What have you heard, what have you been told about his request to have more shipments of weapons delivered on a fast-track basis?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, I sign off on all foreign military sales. And I sign off on all the ones that have gone to Israel and also to Ukraine and Taiwan. And so the fact is, though, that these shipments have been delayed intentionally. The four corners, that being the chair and ranking member of House Foreign Affairs and Senate Relations, we signed off on these weapons. And for some reason, the administration has withheld those weapons.
ROBERT COSTA: There’s a reason. There’s a reason.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I think maybe it gives them leverage over Israel and decision making processes. But when I talked to the prime minister in his office, this creates daylight between the United States and Israel. And I think it’s dangerous, especially right now, for us to somehow put daylight between us and our most important U.S. ally, the democracy in the Middle East.
ROBERT COSTA: Let’s turn to the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump. What is the role going to be – you have going forward in a – in a possible task force to investigate this assassination attempt? Have you spoken with Speaker Johnson about having some kind of role? Because not only you focus on foreign policy, but also on homeland security. What do you want to do and what should happen now?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: What I – what I want to see is sort of like how I’ve conducted the Afghanistan investigation that we’re starting to wind up. We’ll have a report on the anniversary of the Abbey Gate bombing. Professional. Professionalism is very important. Experience. So, you want people that either have, you know, special operators that know how snipers work, to federal prosecutors like myself that know how the process works.
You know, I – I conducted national security events when I led the Joint Terrorism Task Force. And so I want it to be an experienced, but also done very professionally without a lot of theater, if you will. I think you want it to be credible more than anything and it deserves that.
ROBERT COSTA: Will you – will you be on it? Will you be on the task force?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I have no idea. If asked, I would –
ROBERT COSTA: Would you be willing to?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: If asked I would serve, but I – there are a lot of other very qualified people.
ROBERT COSTA: Is it feasible to get a report done on the assassination attempt by the end of this year?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I think so. I went out to the sight. I went up to the rooftop. This individual should never have been that close to the president of the United States. It was very, very close. And the fact he even got there in the first place was a failure. It should have been stopped.
What’s interesting, Robert, is that he had a detonation device on him and two bombs in the car. What his plan was, was to assassinate the president, create a diversion by blowing up his vehicle on the other side of the property, and then he could escape.
ROBERT COSTA: Do you have confidence in the Secret Service to protect former President Trump, and to protect President Biden and other protectees at this point? Yes, the director has just recently resigned. But former President Trump’s going back to Pennsylvania for rallies. The Secret Service is still with him. Do you have confidence in the Secret Service at this time?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: You know, I chaired Homeland for three terms and I have faith and confidence in them. I didn’t have confidence in their leadership. And I’m glad that Director Cheadle did the right thing and resigned, like President Reagan’s director of Secret Service did.
Any time you have an attempted assassination, that is a failure. And she said that herself.
I think the agents are good. I think the problem is, you know, the president is under a lot of threats, obviously. And one from Iran as well. They asked for additional agents. They were not given that. So, it was the leadership.
ROBERT COSTA: Well, should Congress step in, in your view, and provide more resources, more agents? Should – is there a congressional role in addressing the Secret Service issue?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Be happy to do that, but I think, for the most part, they have the resources. It’s just – on this particular event, and the Trump campaign itself, they were derelict in their responsibilities.
ROBERT COSTA: When you look at foreign policy, you also have issue with the border. What’s your assessment of where things stand with U.S. border policy and the national security threats there, especially with this mounting number of arrests at the border in recent weeks?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, in addition to the aggravated felons and the fentanyl and I can go on and on about that.
What I worry most about, Robert, is, look, you had the fall of Afghanistan. Thousands of ISIS-K came out of those prisons at Bagram, end up in a region called the Khorasan region, which is Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan. They make their way over. They come through Mexico. And they enter into the United States. ISIS.
When I chaired Homeland, we worried about this, but never actually saw it. Now we have ISIS in the homeland. Fortunately, the FBI has detained the eight individuals. But the question is, how many more are here.
ROBERT COSTA: Chairman McCaul of Texas, thank you for stopping by FACE THE NATION. We always appreciate your time.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Thank you, Robert.
ROBERT COSTA: Thank you.
And we will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: We’re back with Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen.
Senator, great to have you here at FACE THE NATION.
Let’s begin with your colleague, Senator Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. He was on FACE THE NATION just a few minutes ago. When we’re talking about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, his visit to the United States. We’re glad to have you here. You’ve been so outspoken on Israel and its handling of its war with Hamas.
He was pretty clipped in talking about why he didn’t shake Netanyahu’s hand. He said I just wanted to recognize the relationship between the U.S. and Israel, but he did say – he did not say he had any regrets about making that formal invitation.
Do you agree with the senator’s take on all of this with the Netanyahu visit or not?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): Well, Robert, it’s good to be with you. And just to be very clear, yes, I’ve been critical of the conduct of the war in Gaza, but always affirmed Israel’s right to self-defense. In fact, duty to self-defense.
So, look, I – the message that I got from my trip to Israel nine days ago, where I met with hostage families, was, don’t be used as a political prop by Bibi Netanyahu in an address to Congress that will help boost his very low popularity ratings in Israel at a time when he and his extremist colleagues, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, are not prioritizing the return of the hostages. They’re not prioritizing a cease-fire and return of the hostages.
So, they encouraged me, many of them, to express my views in support of the people of Israel by not participating in what they saw was a political ploy by Prime Minister Netanyahu. So, that’s what I did.
ROBERT COSTA: You said they told you to not be used as a prop. Do you believe Congress was used as a prop by Netanyahu?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I do think. I think Prime Minister Netanyahu accomplished his goal of using Congress as a prop to boost his support in Israel, especially among his right wing extremists. If you saw the people who gave two thumbs up to his speech, they were Ben-Gvir and Smotrich. These are very right wing extremists.
ROBERT COSTA: Was it a mistake for Democrats to support him coming to Congress?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I believe it was. I’ve expressed that view. But the reality is, obviously, he came. So, for those of us who thought it was a mistake to have him here, we expressed our views by – by not participating.
And again, that was the message I got, not only from hostage families, but I also met, Robert, with a lot of Israeli families whose loved ones were victims of the October 7th Hamas attacks, who told me that neither Prime Minister Netanyahu or any member of his government had come to see them, had reached out to them. And their message to me, as I said on the Senate floor in a speech last week was, before he comes to the United States Congress, have him come look us in the eye and explain his responsibility in the intelligence failure that made the Hamas attack even worse. That was their message.
ROBERT COSTA: If you’re so frustrated with Prime Minister Netanyahu, well, should the president refuse to meet with Netanyahu in the future? He met with him this past week. Where should the line be drawn now with Netanyahu?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, my view is that we need to really stand up and confront the extremist policies of Prime Minister Netanyahu and Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. And again, that’s the message we’re getting from many in Israel. I mean while you had people in the Congress standing up and giving Netanyahu big applause –
ROBERT COSTA: A real affirmation.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: You had people in the street, Israelis in the street, protesting the fact that Netanyahu and his right wing extremists, who have been – they’ve been clear that they don’t prioritize the return of the hostages. You had Israelis protesting that fact. And – and the message to me was, if you really want to take a pro-Israel position right now, you’ve got to confront the very extreme positions of Netanyahu and Smotrich. And this is not just their refusal to prioritize a cease-fire and a return of the hostages.
Also, many see some of the extremist measures they’re taking on the West Bank, where they’re pushing Palestinians off their lands, allowing extremist settlers to assault Palestinians with relative impunity. All of this is just going to add fuel to the fire.
ROBERT ACOSTA: You have a political antenna, a policy antenna. I’ve been listening to Vice President Harris this week speak about Israel and what’s going on with the war with Hamas. You’ve been listening as well. Do you believe there is any daylight between her position and articulation of the policy on Israel versus President Biden’s?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I don’t know. What I – what I think about Vice President Harris’ approach here is that all the elements of President Biden’s approach are there. She supports them. She’s been part of that. So, Israel’s right to self-defense. The fact that – how the war is conducted matters. Hamas can have, you know, no control or governance after this war, no more October 7th. But also, very importantly, that the Palestinian Authority has to be the nucleus of governance in a post-war Gaza.
They have lots of flaws. They need lots of help to reform. They also need resources. And very importantly, and you mentioned this with, you know, Congressman McCaul, a path, although he left out this part, a path to a two-state solution to assure that the great majority of the Palestinian people who have nothing to do with Hamas can have some light at the end of the tunnel. We need equal security, equal dignity, equal rights of self- determination for Israelis and Palestinians alike. And the president has coupled that with what you did talk about, which was a normalization agreement with Saudi Arabia, which would be very good for the security interests of Israel.
ROBERT COSTA: And she, of course, will remain President Biden’s vice president for the rest of the term. But she’s also now the presumptive Democratic nominee. One hundred days between now at the election. Would you counsel her in any way to separate or differentiate herself, or at least define herself, on the Israel issue on her own terms quickly, or just to keep going along as is?
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, so, I believe the elements of her policy are the same. But the question is, how we succeed in achieving the elements of the policy. I have been critical of the Biden administration at times for not using all the levers of influence we have to achieve President Biden’s stated goals, including what a post-war Gaza looks like.
So, I was pleased that after her meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu, the vice president made a – made a statement, a public statement, not a written statement, and she did it with clarity.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, we appreciate you coming by FACE THE NATION.
And we will be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: We go now to New Mexico’s governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham, who is a member of Vice President Harris’ campaign advisory board.
Good morning, Governor. Great to have you with us here on FACE THE NATION.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM (D-NM): Good morning, Robert.
ROBERT COSTA: We know you’re with the vice president. You’re a hearty supporter on her advisory board. But I want to begin with the news of the week for history, which was, President Biden’s decision to exit the race.
You were on a call with President Biden and Democratic governors a few weeks ago where CBS News reported that you expressed concern about the president’s performance at the time and whether he was able to win.
Can you tell us what exactly you said and what were your concerns to help us understand why this week played out as it did?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: Well, I don’t know that any of my statements had anything to do with what’s played out, but it is clear to me, or was then, that there was a shift. And New Mexico is a bellwether state, you know, with the largest percentage of Hispanic voters per capita in the country, and that there was a bit of a, if you will, stalling out. And that I found very concerning. That was confirmed by national polling that had Biden beating Trump by 1 percentage point among Hispanic voters. And since his personal decision to certainly put democracy first, I will say, I’m seeing a re-energized, particularly with young voters, with I think is now playing out in national polling, showing Harris beating Trump with Hispanic voters by 19 percentage points.
ROBERT COSTA: How is Vice President Harris playing out on the issue of immigration and the border in your state? Of course, a border state. You heard Senator Graham earlier in the program, he just kept coming back to the issue of the border with Vice President Harris. Are Democrats ready to counter the Republican attacks, and are you confident that she personally can address this issue in an effective way for New Mexico?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: Well, let’s do a couple of things. First, I’m going to answer the question. Yes. There’s renewed enthusiasm because what the Hispanic voters here want is a prosecutor who’s got a history in a border state, dealing with border and immigration issues that can cause risks, like her prosecution successfully of transnational gangs on drugs and guns.
But they also want someone who is going to be balanced on immigration policy. And that’s what the Biden-Harris administration brokered with Congress. And this is the second time we’ve seen Trump and his cast of characters be really clear, they don’t want immigration reform, they want fear, they want division, they’re going to continue to demonize Hispanics and Latinos and immigrant communities. And you know what they see? They see someone who’s tough, fair, balanced, pragmatic, and somebody they can relate to in terms of her own family. That motivates Hispanic voters.
ROBERT COSTA: Senator Graham called Vice President Harris the border czar. That wasn’t her title. She was given responsibility to deal with the root causes of migration when it comes to the border.
Your voters in New Mexico, I’ve spoken to them. They see you as a straight talker. What’s your grade, straight talk, politically speaking, of how she handled the issue of migration during the last three and a half years?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: Well, as a straight shooter, thank you, Robert, thank you New Mexico voters. We have to be engaged in better diplomacy in Central America and South America. She did that very effectively. And, in fact, we had meetings of the Americas and Latino leaders from south of the border, and those have been incredibly promising.
They’re trying to create a label that really belongs squarely with the president and Stephen Miller themselves. They want to be dictators. They want to be dictators on the border. They want to demonize immigrants. They have been incredibly racist. They’re gaslighting. And they have done absolutely nothing on the border that makes any sense. In the last administration, they want to do mass deportation.
Here’s something that I think is really important and telling about this issue. Right now, border crossings are as low as they’ve ever been. Certainly lower than they were in the Trump administration. And we’ve seen a 55 percent decrease. And we’ve seen the right public safety activity at the border in this administration.
ROBERT COSTA: But what about more Border Patrol agents? There has been reported, including a leaked phone call, of you speaking about, you need more from DHS, you need more Border Patrol. You’ve been positive about the administration so far in this conversation, but you’ve often have been urgent about your need for more resources at the border. Does this administration need to do more for you and your state in terms of allocation of resources and agents or not?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: They do. And they’re going to get that opportunity if Republicans in Congress weren’t directed to make sure that they did not do anything to pass a bipartisan border deal that put 1,500 more border patrol and 1,200 more ICE agents. You bet.
And the shift of border patrol by President Biden into ports of entry is exactly what we needed so that we can focus there and then you minimize, right, you can’t seek asylum if you’re not coming in a port of entry. That gets at coyotes and those inappropriate crossings.
So, they both did something based on my urging, and they’re on the right side of this new border deal. Which will get done when Harris is president, we take the House and we keep the Senate.
ROBERT COSTA: And on the search for a running mate for Vice President Harris, Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, from the Sun Belt, your region of the country, is at or near the top of the list based on our reporting. How much of a help would it be for Arizona, for New Mexico, to have someone like Senator Kelly on the ticket? Would you recommend he’s picked by Vice President Harris?
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: Well, my recommendations really shouldn’t matter. This is a personal decision by candidate Harris and the vice president. And I respect that she’s going to make a perfect balanced ticket choice.
But look, this is one of the highest per capita enlisted and veteran communities in the country, New Mexico. You’ve got a veteran, you’ve got an astronaut, you’ve got someone who’s got a very strong public safety record, you’ve got someone who understands the West, when understand water. It’s not just immigration. He would be an incredibly strong pick.
You know, the very first images from space were captured from New Mexico in the ’40s. This would be a very strong pick. But she’s got a really deep bench, which is, I think, another really important facet in this race. The Democrats have people who are ready to move the country forward. She’s about progress and the future, and Trump is about none of those things.
ROBERT COSTA: Governor, we really appreciate you taking the time. That didn’t seem like an endorsement of Senator Kelly, but something close to it. We – we’ll have to check in.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: Well –
ROBERT COSTA: Well, something close – it was a positive –
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: He knows I love him. Come on. He knows I love him.
ROBERT COSTA: All right.
GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM: All right.
ROBERT COSTA: All right, Governor.
We’ll be right back.
And thanks again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ROBERT COSTA: That’s it for us today. Thanks for watching. For FACE THE NATION, I’m Robert Costa.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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